Posted by Ian Riccaboni, Sat, February 04, 2012 06:22 PM | Comments: 46
Posts
According to Fox Sports’ Jon Paul Morosi, Roy Oswalt‘s price tag is falling yet his preferred suitors remain strapped for cash and may not be able to sign the righty. It is no secret the World Series-winning Cardinals and runner-up Rangers are Oswalt’s top choice due to their proximity to his Mississippi home, yet Morosi reports that the Red Sox, Reds, and, yes, the Phillies have remained in contact with Oswalt as contract demands decrease. Oswalt is the best free agent pitcher available, yet teams looking for cheaper options are exploring trades, with Morosi mentioning the Nationals’ John Lannan and the Rays’ Jeff Niemann and Wade Davis being available with affordable, team-friendly contracts.
Of Oswalt’s interest in returning, Morosi says:
Oswalt had a positive experience in Philadelphia, where he went 16-11 with a 2.96 ERA in 221 2/3 innings after arriving in a trade midway through the 2010 season. Oswalt remains interested in returning to the Phillies, sources say. But they haven’t been aggressive in looking for rotation help this off-season, given the formidable – and expensive – cast of starters they currently possess.
This off-season, the Phillies have picked up a few role players whose salaries total what Oswalt may be asking for ($8-$10 million, 1 year). Phillies fans: is Oswalt someone you would be willing to go over the Luxury Tax for, do you have confidence in our fifth starter (Joe Blanton, Kyle Kendrick, or other), and are you disappointed that the money given to players like Ty Wigginton, Laynce Nix, Jim Thome, Chad Qualls, and others could have been used to re-sign Oswalt or does the strengthened bench outweigh fortifying what remains one of the most formidable rotations in baseball?
Click here for Phillies Nation’s Roy Oswalt 2011 Year In Review.
46 CommentsPosts: 0 Dave P
Well, it’d be nice to wear that four aces shirt for a second year. :P
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 06:30 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 103 Ian Riccaboni
It may be time to buy that “Four Aces” pennant at Five Below after all! Also, for those looking for the Four Aces shirts? They’re still out there at various locations and are mostly now on clearance. Honestly, I’d go over the luxury tax for Oswalt on a one or two year deal if I knew we’d still have a puncher’s chance at resigning Hamels long-term.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 06:34 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 1403 Chuck A.
That’s the ONLY way I would re-sign Oswalt….. if it meant we had a really good shot at Hamels long-term. And if his market is slipping then offer him one or two years at 5-6 M Per year.
Flag commentPosted: 06:53 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 122 Jeff of Nova
I would take him for 5-6 for 2 years then sign Hamels to a contract similiar to Lee’s more back loaded.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 07:05 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
Just FYI, the backloading of contracts doesn’t matter with regard to the salary cap. The consider the average annual value for the cap calculations.
If you were advocating a backloaded contract for non-cap reasons then disregard.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 10:22 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 574 Brian Sr. of CO
I am guessing you mean for the Luxury Tax? MLB does not have a salary cap.
Flag commentPosted: 01:10 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
Yeah. Tomato to-mah-to.
Flag commentPosted: 01:17 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 574 Brian Sr. of CO
LOL. Just figured I would throw that out there. :) Besides, depending on you ask, we wouldnt have to worry about it, because apparently Oswalt will sign for $3-4 Mill. LOL. NOT.
Flag commentPosted: 01:28 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 TheDipsy
I told ya, Chuck. He’s comin back here.
The Dipsy
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 07:31 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 0 BART SHART
Frankly, I’d bring him back if he is healthy, then he will be stellar. It is worth the gamble. I have changed my tune on Roy.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 08:06 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 0 Ryan H
If he comes cheap, with some clauses in his contract for innings pitched and staying healthy then I’d go for it. He still has ace ability if he can stay healthy. that’s a big if though
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 08:27 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 1961 Lefty
IMO- Not worth going over the L.T. If there was a way to move someone else to make room to keep them under, sure, why not? But we shouldn’t cross the threshold for him. And I’m not disappointed in the Phils other moves, they were much more important than a fourth starter.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 08:43 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 0 frank riccard
Little Roy’s 2011 was only questionable due to injury. When he was healthy, he was solid. With his stock being so low right now, I feel like we could definitely have him for insanely cheap on a 1 or 2 yr deal.
However, I’d only want him back on the condition that Blanton can absolutely be dealt, which I feel like he cannot. He’s still an unknown quantity (other than his weight).
Bottom line though–I would LOVE to see Rube move Blanton, re-sign Roy-O for another 2 years, and then use that added certainty to get the Cole extension done.
Fingers crossed.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 08:45 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 0 Bob
The bench was much more needed. But i say go over luxury tax and if Blanton is healthy then there are teams interested. Might still be over luxury tax but would be worth it. Feeling is Oswalt can be had on 1 year deal.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 09:07 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 4 Groty
Depends… Is he going to jack up his back again doing yard work, THAT HE COULD HIRE SOMEONE ELSE TO DO FOR HIM!?!?!
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 09:28 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 574 Brian Sr. of CO
You consider jumping on a tractor to dig out his neighborhood and helping family and friends dig out from a hurricane Yard Work? Huh. ok. Maybe baseball really is more important than family and real life.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 01:14 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 E.J.
IMO, Oswalt has such a history of injury problems I hesitate to bring him back. Although I trust him more than I would Blanton and I would keep Kendrick as our “In case of emergency, break open glass pitcher”. That being said, I’d offer a $3-4M contract that’s incentive-laden up to $4.5-$5.5M total.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 10:26 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
If that’s your offer it’s probably best to just keep it to yourself so you don’t insult him.
Seriously, you’d offer him a base salary $500k more than Kyle Kendrick after the 220+ innings of sub-3.00 ERA ball he gave you the last year and a half? I think his agent would hang up on you. And rightly so.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 10:31 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
Wait, it’s even worse. Your base offer is $559,000 LESS than Kendrick is making! haha
This isn’t a video game, man.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 10:32 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 0 E.J.
I’m fully aware this isn’t a video game. But clearly you’re thinking like Oswalt’s agent and less like a GM. I’m sure Oswalt would acknowledge several things: 1) He has back issues in the past and has experienced them in this most recent season. 2) He’s turning 35 this year (in conjunction with the history of injuries) 3) The Phillies are near the luxury tax (albeit Boston is probably as well), 4) Unless the likes of Boston or NYY pay him more, this is probably his best option.
Thome accepted $3MM, Juan Pierre (who was an everyday player last season) has an invite to spring training.
Besides, I’m fully aware that $3-4MM is a starting point. Look at how far apart other players are at arbitration and many times they still come to an agreement somewhere in the middle. Learn a little business strategy, you might learn something.
Flag commentPosted: 10:54 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
You’re vastly underestimating how good of a pitcher Roy Oswalt is.
Chris Carpenter, who is 2 years older and has missed significantly more time due to injury over the last 5 years, is being paid $10.5 million this season and next. Roy was basically a 5-WAR pitcher in 2010 and accumulated ~2.5 WAR despite only making 23 stars, and a number of those while injured.
Your comment about Thome making $3mm this season doesn’t really help your cause here, since he’s a bench player. So you’re saying that a bench player who will be lucky to get into 100 games is worth the same amount that you would initially offer to Oswalt, the potential 4th starter, a guy one season removed from a 5-WAR season? Further, Jim is making the same amount of money he made last year (also as a bench player/DH), so he’s not taking any kind of pay cut despite his advanced age and history of injuries. Oh, btw, he’s 41, 7 years older than Oswalt! Yet you’d be asking Oswalt to sign for the same amount, which is incidentally less than one fifth of what he played for last season? And you think that would get it done? With 4-5 other teams still in the mix?
Oswalt is an excellent picther, warts and all. I think if you can get him around $8mm + incentives it’s an absolute steal (depending on the incentives to some extent).
Flag commentPosted: 11:30 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 0 Chris
I thought Thome was making like 1.25 Million
Flag commentPosted: 12:53 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
Shhhhh. ;)
It is $1.25mm, but if EJ wanted to use $3mm it just reinforced my point. (I think BaseballReference has Thome’s salary wrong)
Flag commentPosted: 02:20 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 574 Brian Sr. of CO
EJ, if you want to be taken seriously, get your facts right. 3MM for Thome? LOL. $559,000 more for Oswalt than KENDRICK? The last time Oswalt earned less then $5Mill a year…2005. He will not sign, nor talk to anyone if an offer is $12-$13MM less than what he made last year. It has nothing to do with EricL “thinking like Oswalt’s agent and less like a GM”. It has more to do with him thinking with common sense, and realizing that while to most of us, 3-4Mill a year would be AWESOME, and I would be over the moon, just to make $500 k a year, but to others, numbers like that are in fact offensive. Thats how the Astros and Orioles Front office think, and look at how great they are, year after year. If you want a little business strategy, you don’t make an offer to somewhere that will drive them to laugh in your face and walk away. You are more likely to get a fair deal, if he is asking for $8Mill, you offer $5 Mill ($1-2Mill over your offer mind you) and meet in the middle at about maybe $6.5mill. That is still $9.5 Mill less then what we would have paid him if we picked up his option.
Flag commentPosted: 01:27 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
Here’s a question for Phillies Nation commenters. Would you rather have:
Madson + Oswalt as 4th starter
or
Papelbon + Blanton as 4th starter
Because that’s getting close to the entire salary difference assuming Oswalt’s demands are now down somewhere below $10mm.
If the Phils can move Blanton, I’d love to see Oswalt take his spot. But they probably won’t be able to if only because he’s coming off of a very injury plagued season. If he was completely healthy I’d figure there would be multiple suitors for him.
All that being said, I’d be really surprised if the Phillies are even involved. This sounds to me like an agent trying to up the bidding by fibbing to a reporter about the level of interest in his client.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 10:28 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 103 Ian Riccaboni
Question for @EricL or anyone else who may know, for that matter:
If the Phillies dump Blanton and pay his whole salary, does it still count against the Luxury Tax?
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 11:51 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
I believe so, because it’s money paid as compensation to players.
It’s the same reason that the money the Astros sent to the Phils in the Pence deal allowed them to stay under the cap.
If the Phils have to eat a significant portion of Blanton’s salary then I become much less sanguine about any potential Oswalt signing.
Flag commentPosted: 02:23 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 1961 Lefty
Good question Riccaboni, and I don’t have the answer, except to say that I don’t believe the team would ever do that. They seem to hold on to, and squeeze every last ounce of participation out of players they give big contracts to, whether they are meeting expectations or not.
But I’d love to know the answer to your question anyway.
Flag commentPosted: 10:40 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 George
I’d be really surprised, too, if the Phils are really involved. They were keeping in touch with Brad Lidge, but when the time came, they only made him really low-ball offer and he signed with the Nats for a slightly higher pittance. It’s probably the same thing with Oswalt.
They’re just too close to the luxury tax limit, and every move they’ve made so far indicates that Amaro and company don’t want to exceed it. Even if they do want Oswalt back, they’re not going to free up much money by trading Blanton. They’d have to eat most of his salary, so it wooldn’t help the payroll total enough.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 08:45 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 EricL
Blanton is a fine pitcher, and I really don’t think they’d have to eat all that much of his contract. Especially if they deal him closer to the dealine and he’s got half a season of healthy ball behind him.
I’m working under the hypothetical that you can pick up Oswalt for something like $8.5-10mm and move Blanton for some minor league filler or something. If eating a significant portion of JB’s contract was necessary then the cost to acquire Oswalt is higher than acceptable, IMO.
Flag commentPosted: 11:56 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 1961 Lefty
Eric, I would choose the first option. But it wasn’t in the cards I guess, so the reality for now is, we have option #2.
I hate the Papelbon signing, I hate it worse than – you know, that other unpopular signing. (trying not to wake the beasties!) Pap’s 2011 peripherals are outstanding and hard to resist, I understand that. But we all know that with age the velocity will slow, and he’s on our books until he’s 34 or 35. I hope he can hang on and be effective for that long, but think it’s doubtful.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 11:00 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
So you’re saying a reunion with Oswalt wasn’t: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgFyi74DVjc&ob=av3e
haha.
(Could TBS have played that more during the playoffs?)
Flag commentPosted: 11:58 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 Chris
If we can move Blanton then sure why not go get Oswalt. Otherwise I’m not all that concerned about adding pitching. I think we have more than enough to be at the tops of the league in regards to rotation right now.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 11:27 PM on February 4, 2012Posts: 0 Mazinman
If we can get Oswalt for a reasonable price then sure. A one year price does not hurt us keeping Hamels next year. The Luxury tax hit does not take place until the end of the season right? That means we have time to deal Blanton before that happens. Lets give R2C2 another try at those rings.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 01:19 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 bacardipr05
I would if they can somehow ship Joe. Would not give him a 2yr deal not with his injury history.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 06:28 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 dennisq
I would love Oswalt back this year. We need to get rid of Blanton. trade him for a low level moinor leaguer .If we get rid of him, then we could sign Oswalt for around Blanton’s money and we wouldn’t have to go over the luxuray tax. The problem is going to be finding someone that wants Blanton.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 07:27 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 HeelsPhils
A Blanton trade makes no sense unless you can get rid of most of his salary and that’s not happening.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 09:40 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 Jaron B
I would like the Phillies to move on from Oswalt; however, if he remains unsigned in spring training and the starters signed (Worley, Blanton, Kendrick, Pinero, Qualls) don’t do well, then bring Oswalt back. I have confidence that the Phillies have enough depth to deal with injuries to Blanton and Contreras and potential sophomore slumps. Rube did well this offseason, but some of the bench and bullpen signings should have been major league deals and others should have been minor league deals. We have 3 guaranteed starters and I have high confidence in the veterans in the ‘pen signed to ML deals. We should wait until the waning days of Feb. to bring back Oswalt if he is unsigned and many of the pitchers signed this offseason (and new arrivals) don’t perform well in S.T.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 10:20 AM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 Psujoe
Why would any team trade for Blanton at $8.5 mil instead of just signing Oswalt?
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 12:03 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 298 EricL
Maybe they think he’s better? I don’t know. Why would a team trade for John Bowker, then keep him on the 40-man roster during the rule-5 draft when you need roster spots to protect your young players who might be drafted then later cut him so he can go play in Japan?
Teams do silly things all the time.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 12:23 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 1961 Lefty
Can you imagine what happens to the legacy of RA Jr. if Lendy Castillo turns into a HOFer?
Flag commentPosted: 12:33 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 Dave L
Sign Oswalt!
You’ve got to be kidding me if you believe the Phillies are a better team with either Blanton or god forbid Kendrick as the number four starter! I think Blanton is more of an injury concern. And even when healthy isn’t anywhere near the caliber of Oswalt. Kendrick is a spot guy and long relief guy. Anything more than that and you’re exposing him for what he is, mediocre at his very best. This offseason, the Phillies upgraded their bench, acquired a proven top notch closer and stood pat with the starting eight. That starting eight can’t muster enough offense to support pitchers with ERA of 4+. If this team is going to win a world series, it has got to be right now! Take a shot with Oswalt,because this is it for this group as it’s constituted. They’re not going to get better or find Jesus and learn a better approach to hitting, regardless of what Charlie says or who is the hitting instructor. They are who they are and we need great pitching,not good pitching to win it.
Posts: 0 Ray
I say and will continue to say to bring back Oswalt if he’s healthy. He’s still a good picture and really don’t we want to see the four aces together once more to see what they can really do. If he signs with the nationals we may be in really big trouble .I my mind they are the up and coming team just like the Phillies were all those number 1 picks are coming of age and that team will be a team to be reckon with. I believe as long as we have our stud pitchers we will fight them off but one day i’m afraid they shall overcome us. We shouldn’t complain afterall its been the best baseball ever for a aphillies team .I’m so lucky to have lived to see this kind of baseball.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 12:26 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 1961 Lefty
Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton- That fearsome foursome won the World Series in 08, and JC Romero got 2 of the wins. Me-thinks they can survive with Halladay, Hamels and Lee.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 12:38 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 Aidan
Why are so many people bashing on Kendrick? Sure he has been a little inconsistent at times but people forget how well he has done for the contract he has had. I love the off season moves to get us the depth on the bench and if that means letting Oswalt go, then so be it. I have full confidence that we can lose him and not miss a beat.
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 12:43 PM on February 5, 2012Posts: 0 Tom Taylor
I don’t see any real bad points here (Phil’s fans always know there team) I think it’s a matter of what r u gonna get from Joe vs the same from Roy…. Vance is our solid 5 , so if u can move Joe then sign Roy….. …….. But how about if we can keep Joe . Let him rotate in the pen again and keep joe and Kyle as long and 5&6 inng guys. U could max the pens health if we can get long strechs from the starters and have depth in the pen. Forget the luxury tax… If they want to win then Ruben will make them understand. Depth skill and fire would be opening day if Roy signed Joe and Kendrick go to the pen…..
Reply to this PostFlag commentPosted: 12:55 PM on February 5, 2012 Leave a Comment>> Create a new Phillies Nation account. >> Already registered with Phillies Nation? Log in here. >> Comment without logging in:
Name (required)
Email (will not be published) (required)
Leave a comment below
Please ensure your comments comply with our Comment Policy. .load-hide{display:none} NetworkPostsActivity Login to your Phillies Nation account to comment and access your Network dashboard.
Username:
Password:
Don't have an account? Create a new one here >>
Week In Review - Qualls, Quinn, Free BeerPhillies Nation Interview: Roman QuinnProspect Nation 2012: #17 2B Harold Garcia"Take Back the Park" Has Intended EffectPhillies Nation Interview with Mickey Morandini Phillies Fans: Get Excited About Chad QuallsPat Gallen on CSNPhilly.com's Lunch Break
tavian commented on the blog post Phillies Nation Interview: Roman Quinn 4 seconds ago · View
Come on without….Come on within…When Quinn the Roman gets here, yeah !!!…….Everybody’s gonna root for him.
Or at least I hope so.
jaimietalsky commented on the blog post Super Bowl Party at McFadden’s Ballpark 2 minutes ago · View
christian laboutinchristian louboutin bootschristian louboutin shoeschristian louboutin outletloboutin bootsDiscount Louboutin EveningDiscount Christian Louboutin weddingDiscount Christian Louboutin SandalsCheap Louboutin bootschristian louboutin shoes
kenstee commented on the blog post “Take Back the Park” Has Intended Effect 25 minutes ago · View
Just a few short years ago the Nationals actually INVITED Phillies fans to come down to the season opener. LOL!!! It’s OK. Their policy won’t effect the outcome. And there’s always StubHub you know…..
buycheap commented on the blog post Super Bowl Party at McFadden’s Ballpark 1 hour, 22 minutes ago · View
canada goosecanada goose outletcanada goose jacketsgoose downcanada goose glovescanada goose trillium parkacanada goose pricewinter coats for kidswomens parkayorkville parka
Brian Sr. of CO commented on the blog post 1 hour, 53 minutes ago · View
LOL. Just figured I would throw that out there. :) Besides, depending on you ask, we wouldnt have to worry about it, because apparently Oswalt will sign for $3-4 Mill. LOL. NOT.
Shop Fan Gear Unlimited for all your Phillies Gear on sale. Check out great deals on stadium seats with backs and great coupons at the Sports Unlimited Facebook page.
2012 Phillies SalariesCharlie Manuel
$3 million
Cliff Lee
$21.5 million
Ryan Howard
$20 million
Roy Halladay
$20 million
Chase Utley
$15 million
Jonathan Papelbon
$11 million
Jimmy Rollins
$11 million
Cole Hamels
$9.5 million
Shane Victorino
$9.5 million
Joe Blanton
$8.5 million
Hunter Pence
$6.9 million
Placido Polanco
$6.25 million
Ty Wigginton
$4 million
Carlos Ruiz
$3.7 million
Jose Contreras
$2.5 million
Kyle Kendrick
$2.45 million
Jim Thome
$1.25 million
Laynce Nix
$1.15 million
Dontrelle Willis
$850,000
Brian Schneider
$800,000
John Mayberry
$414,000
Vance Worley
$405,000
Antonio Bastardo
$405,000
Alliance Tickets Alliance Tickets is your source watching your favorite team live and all your MLB Tickets. We carry a huge selection of cheap Philadelphia Phillies Tickets, Rockies Tickets, Seattle Mariners Tickets, and San Francisco Giants Tickets. Phillies Rumors & News > The Nation on FlickrNot Affiliated with Major League Baseball or the Philadelphia PhilliesPrivacy Policy | Contact Us
Switch to our mobile site Phillies NationLog InSign Up VisitRandom Member
View the Original article
No comments:
Post a Comment